Save to PDF bug - images move

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stevenrowat
Posts: 74
Joined: 2012-02-20 11:48:49

Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by stevenrowat »

Hi,

I'm regularly encountering a bug in PDFs made from Nisus Pro in which the image jumps a few lines (changes position relative to the text) in the PDF file.

See two images attached for an example of what happens: my original in Nisus is the one that only intersects two lines of text; the other one is what happened in the PDF; it jumped up several lines.

This time I needed to solve it, and on experimenting I discovered that it only happens if the image is 'Position relative to paragraph'. If I change it to 'position relative to page', it stays correctly in position.

This is only a hack workaround, because I need to change the images in the Nisus file back to 'relative to paragraph' after saving to PDF so they'll stay in the flow of the document when I'm editing.

Other details:
I don't know why some images jump and some don't. My current file has about 20 images; four jumped in this round of saving to PDF (all solved by changing to 'position relative to page'); the others stayed put.


Steven Rowat
Attachments
Screenshot-2-imageJumpsUpinPDF.png
Screenshot-2-imageJumpsUpinPDF.png (75.75 KiB) Viewed 10003 times
Screenshot-Nisus-original.png
Screenshot-Nisus-original.png (81.41 KiB) Viewed 10003 times

feat
Posts: 105
Joined: 2004-01-29 04:17:10
Location: Paris, FR

Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by feat »

I'm having trouble with this too, except I'm dealing with 100s of images, not only 20… and found that most of the times, the only way to solve this is to insert the illustration in a table so it stays put!

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greenmorpher
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Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by greenmorpher »

Obviously this shouldn’t happen and I have no solution in terms of NWP's capabilities.

There is a solution I can suggest, however -- don’t put graphics in the middle of text.

It ruins readablity.

Kind regards

Geoffrey Heard
Business & Environment Writer, Editor, Publisher
The Worsley Press

feat
Posts: 105
Joined: 2004-01-29 04:17:10
Location: Paris, FR

Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by feat »

this is definitely not a solution, since the position of the graphics is irrelevant in these cases:
  • my images are usually flushed right
  • a few are flushed left
  • and none are ever centered in the middle of text paragraphs
yet most are vertically offset between editing sessions -- or when saved to pdf;

please, note that it's been almost 1 year since I complained about it:

http://www.nisus.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7&start=26

unfortunately that bug hasn't been squashed yet, but once they've been offset, those images won't get displaced again, unless something is changed on that page... or above it...

martin
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Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by martin »

Yes, this is indeed a known issue that doesn't have a general purpose workaround- sorry about that. But we are aware of this bug and want to get it fixed. Some things can help stabilize the image location, like changing the placement to "fixed on page" as Steven did. But clearly that isn't a viable long-term solution.

stevenrowat
Posts: 74
Joined: 2012-02-20 11:48:49

Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by stevenrowat »

martin wrote:Yes, this is indeed a known issue that doesn't have a general purpose workaround- sorry about that. But we are aware of this bug and want to get it fixed. Some things can help stabilize the image location, like changing the placement to "fixed on page" as Steven did. But clearly that isn't a viable long-term solution.
It's somewhat disturbing if it's been around for a year. Of course you 'want to get it fixed', but that doesn't sound like you're sure exactly where the problem lies. I have confidence though that you can fix it if you throw enough time at it. :-)

And to expedite that happening, I'd like to emphasize (though you may be well aware of this), that PDF is of increasing importance in many publishing schemes; and especially with the new rise of Apple relative to Microsoft, people who always used .doc will turn to PDF, I believe. In my own case I like working in .rtf, but all final publishing has to be in PDF (both hard-copy publishing and digital books); as well as editors before the final product. So having a seamless integration between Nisus and PDF is essential, and this glitch is quite annoying. It means that when I get to the final, finished Nisus .rtf, my work has only begun, because now I have to hunt all through the PDF and go back and forth changing images and making multiple copies and reading them again and again, to make sure the PDF reflects the Nisus .rtf. Then, if I need to edit the Nisus for any reason later, I have to change all the image positions back to flow first, and then go through it all again.

I went through this in detail to make sure you fully understand that for those of us with PDF output, this is not a small issue. It's enough to make me start hunting for other software to write in, sad to say; or at least thinking about it. :-) .

martin
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Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by martin »

stevenrowat wrote:I have confidence though that you can fix it if you throw enough time at it. :-)
Ah, thank you for the confidence- we will certainly make a good effort!

And thanks for the extra explanation about why this bug is so troublesome for you, and for being gracious about it. I think you make an excellent point, and PDF should be a priority for us. We'd also hate to see you leave Nisus Writer, especially after being so helpful with your feedback.

glh
Posts: 3
Joined: 2012-05-19 10:07:02

Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by glh »

I don't use images, but if your Nisus file prints all right, you could save it as a ps file and then open that with Preview. If it doesn't print correctly either, then obviously this won't work.

stevenrowat
Posts: 74
Joined: 2012-02-20 11:48:49

Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by stevenrowat »

glh wrote:I don't use images, but if your Nisus file prints all right, you could save it as a ps file and then open that with Preview. If it doesn't print correctly either, then obviously this won't work.
Interesting idea.
I tried a parallel test, saving to PDF and exporting to PS, and, annoyingly, the bug didn't occur in the PDF for the first time I can remember. So the fact that it didn't show up in the PS either doesn't say anything yet. Next time it occurs I'll try one in PS.

One additional thought about this test I just did: in each case I closed and re-opened the file before saving PDF/exporting PS (which I don't always do), to make sure it was as 'clean' as possible. Possibly this is related to the bug not showing, because Nisus regularly fouls up the placement of images in the flow and/or forgets the last few lines on a page when I'm editing in a way that changes the line flow, and I sometimes have to re-open the file to get Nisus to show the layout as it actually is now.

stevenrowat
Posts: 74
Joined: 2012-02-20 11:48:49

Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by stevenrowat »

glh wrote:...you could save it as a ps file and then open that with Preview. If it doesn't print correctly either, then obviously this won't work.
I've now had a chance to work this through with a jumping image, and it looked promising -- it solves the jumping image -- but then I discover that the change from PS -> PDF (via Preview, which I need to do because I must end up with a PDF at the end for commercial printing) ends up with corruptions in letter placement. Letters occasionally get printed horizontally shifted overtop of other letters in about 10% of my pages. These only show up when the final PDF is printed from Adobe Reader, and not on screen in any case, but I consider Adobe Reader the gold standard for PDFs so I can't use this method; some sort of corruption is occurring in Preview's translation from PS to PDF (or possibly earlier in the creation of the PS).

So, I'm still back to trying to get PDFs directly out of Nisus, without having the images jump.
I've sent samples to Nisus feedback; I hope they can find a way around this.

One last discovery is that the Nisus file itself changes after 'saving to PDF': in the original .rtf Nisus file, the image jumps and stays out of position (until Nisus is closed and opened). Thus the jumping is happening, it seems, in Nisus before it is translated into PDF, but it is caused by the action of saving to PDF, somehow.

stevenrowat
Posts: 74
Joined: 2012-02-20 11:48:49

Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by stevenrowat »

stevenrowat wrote:
glh wrote:...you could save it as a ps file and then open that with Preview. If it doesn't print correctly either, then obviously this won't work.
I've now had a chance to work this through with a jumping image, and it looked promising...but [from the ps] ...Letters occasionally get printed horizontally shifted overtop of other letters in about 10% of my pages.
An update: I have some added steps that allows the suggested ps workaround to function in my case, although awkwardly.
Summary: Save to both PDF and PS, open both in Preview, and drag good pages from PS to PDF to replace the jumped-image pages there.

This may not work in other cases, but it seems to in mine.

Detailed steps:

1. Save Nisus rtf file to PS.
2. Save Nisus rtf file to PDF.
3. Note which pages are damaged by the 'jump' in the PDF version.
4. Note which pages don't print right from the PS version (when saved again to PDF).
5. As long as there's no overlap (ie, pages in step 3 and step 4 are all different):
6. Replace the bad ('jumped') pages in the PDF file from step #2 with good pages from the PS file in step #1. This can be done easily in Preview, which will open both the PDF and the PS and will allow the pages to be dragged and dropped.
7. Save the repaired PDF file from Preview, and it should correctly reflect the Nisus original and print OK from Adobe Reader.

In my case, there are no overlaps (only 1 image jumped, damaging two pages, and neither of those were ones that had the PS print bug), so I could replace them. If there is overlap, this workaround won't do the job.

Wizardiaoan
Posts: 11
Joined: 2012-07-02 14:44:03

Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by Wizardiaoan »

Have you tried to save it to PS only? Does the Nisus file's image jump then?

Then open Acrobat Distiller to convert the PS file to PDF?

stevenrowat
Posts: 74
Joined: 2012-02-20 11:48:49

Re: Save to PDF bug - images move

Post by stevenrowat »

Wizardiaoan wrote:Have you tried to save it to PS only? Does the Nisus file's image jump then?

Then open Acrobat Distiller to convert the PS file to PDF?
Wizardiaoan, I'm not sure I understand your question. If you read the previous several posts you'll see that I am saving both the PS and to PDF, because each one has a different bug. (No, it doesn't jump in PS, but it has a bug reading one of the fonts I use.) So I was saving to both and then creating a compiled PDF of the good pages from both. This works.

I don't have Distiller, so I'm using Preview for the conversions.

Steven

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