Outline lists - missing the obvious

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Amontillado
Posts: 8
Joined: 2019-06-20 11:13:06

Outline lists - missing the obvious

Post by Amontillado »

I'm sure this is answered, but I can't find it.

When I choose "outline" in the list styles, I get the expected roman numeral one.

I type a line, hit enter, and now the outline mode is turned off and I'm in my body style.

Generally, I hate outlines. Anything to purge the world of their stultifying influence is probably worthy of praise.

Yet, on those days I wake up hating myself, I sometimes want to outline.

Is there a way to drop into outline mode and type with hierarchy?

adryan
Posts: 366
Joined: 2014-02-08 12:57:03
Location: Australia

Re: Outline lists - missing the obvious

Post by adryan »

G'day, Amontillado et al

I think there might be a bug here, possibly introduced in NWP 3.2. I can confirm the behavior you observe, with Number Lists as well. The List Style is not continued to the next paragraph, at least not unless you start the List four or five lines down the page.

If you select all your list paragraphs and then apply the List Style, it should all work, but you shouldn't have to do that once you have begun a List.

Cheers,
Adrian
MacBook Pro (mid-2014)
macOS Mojave 10.14.6
Nisus Writer user since 1996

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phspaelti
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Location: Japan

Re: Outline lists - missing the obvious

Post by phspaelti »

The Outline list style works fine for me. NWP 3.2

But it is just a list style. It is not a "real" outline.
philip

Amontillado
Posts: 8
Joined: 2019-06-20 11:13:06

Re: Outline lists - missing the obvious

Post by Amontillado »

Curious. Now I can't duplicate the behavior. I'll try again later when I've got time. My wife is saying something about supper, and from the rising vocal inflections I sense this is not the time to play with word processors, even ones as nice as Nisus.

adryan
Posts: 366
Joined: 2014-02-08 12:57:03
Location: Australia

Re: Outline lists - missing the obvious

Post by adryan »

G'day, Philip, Amontillado et al

I've looked at this a bit more. I think the problem lies with a conflict in the Style hierarchy.

If the initial (or probably any) text on a page already has a Paragraph Style assigned to it that specifies that the next paragraph is to have a different Style, application of a List Style to that text has no effect on a subsequently added new paragraph: it adopts the Paragraph Style prescribed by its predecessor and does not acquire the List Style. I do not consider this to be the expected behavior.

If, however, the initial Paragraph Style specifies that the next paragraph is to have the same or no specific Paragraph Style, superimposition of a List Style gives the expected behavior.

The fact that an individual List Item can have its Paragraph Style changed subsequently, without affecting either its status as a List Item or the Paragraph Styles of other paragraphs (unless perhaps it specifies it for the succeeding paragraph), shows that Lists are not expected to have a uniform Paragraph Style throughout. Therefore, progression of a List should not be disrupted by any Next Style specification in Paragraph Styles. So I think there is a bug here.

I'm not sure what Amotillado's initial situation was, but the testing I did for my previous posting turned out to incorporate this Next Style scenario.

Cheers,
Adrian
MacBook Pro (mid-2014)
macOS Mojave 10.14.6
Nisus Writer user since 1996

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phspaelti
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Location: Japan

Re: Outline lists - missing the obvious

Post by phspaelti »

Putting aside the question of whether list styles should behave as Adrian thinks they should.

Returning to my (second) point. "Outline" is not an outline feature. It is just a list style.
There is no true Outline feature in Nisus. Instead some of the functionality of an Outline can be approximated using styles, and the Navigator.

The proper way to set up something like that will be to have a set of Level styles. These styles should be set to have the appropriate level of the Outline list style for numbering purposes. They should also be set to be included in the TOC. The Outline will then appear in the Navigator where they can be collapsed and rearranged as desired. Dragging headings around in the Navigator will drag along all the children of the heading.

To do this you can use a dedicated set of styles ("Level 1", "Level 2", etc.), but you can also just use the Heading styles provided which are typically set to be included in the TOC by default. If you want your Outline to be formatted differently, just create a style sheet with the exact same styles names. You can then switch between the different stylings by choosing the appropriate stylesheet from the style library, and having NWP replace the existing styles.
philip

adryan
Posts: 366
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Location: Australia

Re: Outline lists - missing the obvious

Post by adryan »

G'day, Philip et al

Thanks for your comprehensive procedure for dealing with outlines in NWP, Philip.

Nevertheless, the fact remains that NWP includes "Outline" among the List Style options, which encourages the expectation that Outline will behave pretty much as other List Styles do. And indeed this expectation is largely met, at least in the simple case Amontillado and I have been discussing. As long as Next Style does not stipulate a change in Paragraph Style, Outline works fine. Succeeding paragraphs assume the specified numbering scheme, and Levels are easily changed using the Lists Palette.

The further fact remains that I had tested things with Number Lists as well as Outline Lists. In both cases, List progression was terminated by a Next Style mismatch. Without this aberrant behavior on the part of Next Style, I suspect that neither Amontillado nor I would have observed anything untoward.

Of course, the most disturbing thing in all this is that Amontillado sometimes wakes up with an outline compulsion. But perhaps this isn't the most appropriate forum for addressing that particular problem. :-)

Cheers,
Adrian
MacBook Pro (mid-2014)
macOS Mojave 10.14.6
Nisus Writer user since 1996

Amontillado
Posts: 8
Joined: 2019-06-20 11:13:06

Re: Outline lists - missing the obvious

Post by Amontillado »

Adryan, I appreciate your insights - but....
  1. I do not have a compulsion to outline
  2. I can stop any time I want
    1. LIke now.
      1. Seriously. No big deal.
        1. Quitting is easy
          1. Go for a walk.
          2. Call a friend until the compulsion eases

adryan
Posts: 366
Joined: 2014-02-08 12:57:03
Location: Australia

Re: Outline lists - missing the obvious

Post by adryan »

G'day, Amontillado et al

Oh dear! It looks like you're in for one of those days, Amontillado. Enjoy your walk.

Cheers,
Adrian
MacBook Pro (mid-2014)
macOS Mojave 10.14.6
Nisus Writer user since 1996

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