NWE 2.6.1 horrors

[cstross]

I'm having big problems with 2.6.1. I've been working in Word 2004 for a while and decided to switch to 2.6.1 for a new project (I'm about to acquire a MacBook Pro, and it'd be nice to have an Intel-native word processor).

Problem 1: on importing and editing a 2500 word long, very vanilla Word document, I found that paste wasn't working (including paste text only). NB: by "very vanilla" I mean it's straight text: no tables, pictures, notes, graphics, or anything else, not fast-saved ... just plain words in sentences.

Problem 2: on saving the file as RTF, quitting, restarting NWE, and loading the file, it turned out to have been corrupted. Examining the RTF output in a text editor, it looks as if all the paragraphs in the file have been saved without any text!

(One of the reasons I wasn't using NWE all along is that a while back, when I downloaded the 2.6.1 upgrade and installed it, I opened a test Word doc. It threw the same kind of error at me, replacing the 80,000 word book with about 20Kb of nothing in particular. Luckily I'm a professional paranoid and I never have just <i>one</i> backup of a current file, so I didn't lose anything, but it was enough to put me off, and I had a tight deadline to hit. Now I know the behaviour seems to be consistent, at least on my system, I'm getting worried.)

Are there any known issues with file saving behaviour under NWE causing this type of catastrophic data loss?

(PS: System is a Powerbook G4 17" 1.67GHz running OS/X 10.4.5. Other info available on request.)

[cstross]

I've now just conducted the following experiment:

Create test file using MS Word 2004.

Save test file as RTF. (Make a spare copy.)

Start NWE 2.6.1. Open test file. Save test file. Quit NWE.

Comparing the test file to the spare backup copy -- all the text has gone, replaced by empty paragraphs!

This behaviour seems to be repeatable and consistent on my system, although I guess from the lack of howls of rage in this forum nobody else is experiencing it.

[cstross]

I've now just conducted the following experiment:

Create test file using MS Word 2004.

Save test file as RTF. (Make a spare copy.)

Start NWE 2.6.1. Open test file. Save test file. Quit NWE.

Comparing the test file to the spare backup copy -- all the text has gone, replaced by empty paragraphs!

This behaviour seems to be repeatable and consistent on my system, although I guess from the lack of howls of rage in this forum nobody else is experiencing it.

[cstross]

Third and final observation for today: the same behaviour occurs with NWE 2.7 beta 2 as with NWE 2.6.1.

[jesse_the_k]

I've been frustrated with Word 2004's "helpful" behavior lately. (If I'd wanted to apply a "list number" style as opposed to a "list" style, I'd have selected that myself.)

Another good friend/writer has just switched to Mac after 20 years on PCs.

So, the eternal query: can I avoid Word? arises yet again.

Seems like the answer is "not yet."

Sigh.

(now to check the Mariner forum to see if it's any better over there).

[cchapin]

I'm not sure what's going on with your set-up, but I am not able to reproduce the problem on my similar configuration (15" G4 PB, 1 GHz, same software you mentioned). This info doesn't help you, but I hate to leave your query hanging out there with no reply at all.

--Craig

[dshan]

I suggest you send your .doc file to Nisus support via Help->Send Feedback, there has to be something odd or unusual about these Word files. I've seen NWX have problems converting complex Word docs with imbedded images and stuff, but not plan vanilla text files, they should convert fine. I've never had the problem you describe converting Word files into NWX.

How are you importing the Word docs into NWX? File->Open... the Word .doc files directly, or are you opening the .rtf versions you saved from Word? You're not copying from Word and pasting into NWX are you? (I've seen that cause problems in the past.)

[cstross]

Done some more dinking. It doesn't appear to be a corrupt Preferences or Application Support file. (Removed: ~/Library/Application Support/Nisus Writer and ~/Library/Preferences/com.nisus.NisusWriter.plist ... repeated tests: same problem.)

Does NWE share any code/use libraries from other applications? Such as AbiWord, perhaps? (I vaguely remember some AbiWord stuff in its heritage, or am I misremembering?) Does it use external translators from, e.g. MacLinkPro?

UPDATE: just created a new user account, logged into it, and did the tests in that. NWE worked properly this time, cut and paste being okay, and no lost data. So it's clearly something to do with my user profile rather than the application itself.

Is there anything else in ~/Library that I ought to be nuking to reset my user context?

[martin]

Do you have any kind of interesting haxies (system extensions) installed? They can cause any number and kind of problems when they interact badly with a program.

[cstross]

Haxies?

I've got Application Enhancer 1.5.1, with WindowShade X 4.0.1 enabled (installed but disabled: Metallifizer 1.2, IconSizeEnabler 1.0).

Quick test 1: adding Nisus Writer Express to WindowShade X's "exclude" list doesn't fix the problem.

(About to log out/log in with APE disabled and try that ...)

[cstross]

More testing: the problem isn't caused by APE or any of the above Haxies, unless APE is lying when it claims to be temporarily disabled.

Nor is the cause one or more of Quicksilver, CamelBones, iScroll2, SharePoints, or ExtFSManager (and I've now run out of system extensions to rip out and test with).

I will note that I'm getting a MacBook Pro next Thursday. When it arrives I'll use the System Migration Agent and see if the problem exists on the new machine. If the problem follows me onto the new machine, I will then do a reformat-and-reinstall and then manually copy my data across and reinstall all my apps, in order to leave behind the accumulated cruft. (And if the problem behaviour is [i]still[/i] happening at that point (although I expect it won't be), then I guess you've got a bug and I'll come back to pester you again :)

[Anne Cuneo]

So, the eternal query: can I avoid Word? arises yet again

I haven't opened Word on purpose for the last 12 months. I keep receiving Word documents, from PCs and Macs, I open them in Nisus (since 2.5), they look like Nisus documents; I keep sending Nisus documents saved as Word Format, they keep being received as Word documents. I have Word for Mac 2003 on my computer because someone insisted on giving it to me, I never updated it because I just don't use it. I have been considering throwing it out lately, as my disk is busting at the seams. In fact, the only reason to use Word, for me, is to open documents from Word 3.0, which I had before I discovered Nisus some 15 years ago; I never managed opening such old documents with anything else than Word (as text only, of course).
I wonder whether being systematic like that (i.e. never let a document open as Word, and vice versa) helps; I never had any of the problems you describe, anyway.
For me, the answer is: yes, we can avoid Word as a software. We cannot avoid Word format, but that's something else.

PS. I am using Nisus 2.6.1 of course.

[jonlink]

while I do love nisus there is an easy way (using the terminal if you aren't afraid of it) to convert word .doc files.

pasting this into the terminal & changing yourfile .doc to the filename of your file works like a charm:

Code: Select all

textutil -convert rtf yourFile.doc
or
 textutil -convert rtf "your file.doc"

of course you need to navigate into the folder holding the file. To change folders use "cd" which means change directory. Some examples are below, the "~" means your user folder. Also, use quotes when you have blank spaces

Code: Select all

 cd ~/Documents/myFolder/myOtherFolder
 cd ~/Desktop/myFolder
 cd //Volumes/"Macintosh HD"/myFolder

if you want to see what is in the folder type "ls" which means list.

finally, and this is where is gets fun and easy, if you want to convert a bunch of files quickly, navigate to that folder and paste this:

Code: Select all

 find . -name *.doc -exec textutil -convert rtf '{}' \;

it will find all the word docs in the folder you are currently in (including folders within that folder) and convert them to rtf. then once you are done paste this if you want to delete the old .doc files:

Code: Select all

 find . -name *.doc -exec rm '{}' \;

if you want to convert all the files in your user folder and delete the old wor docs, you can just past those last two command in (one at a time) and let it rip.

this can also be used as a roundabout way of opening and editing .doc files. and if you need to you can then use nisus to save them a .doc again, or you can use textutil again ( textutil -convert doc yourFile.rtf )


hope that helps

[cstross]

10.4.6 showed up on Software Update today, so I upgraded OS/X, rebooted ... and, of course, had to check to see if my problem was still there.

Cut and paste is working again, and I can save files again without losing data.

I'm now officially weirded out. It seems like I was bitten by a bug that was (a) specific to OS/X 10.4.5 and NWE 2.6.1/2.7b2, and (b) only occured due to some flaky item in my account that got un-flaked by the process of upgrading to a newer point release of OS/X.

Which means, I guess I can now start using NWE again ... but I'm going to be rather obsessive about backup integrity!

[dshan]

Clearly your PB knows it's about to be replaced by a shiny new MacBook Pro, and it's not happy about it. Anyway, I thought you were going to write on your mobile phone from now on...