Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

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tarakananda
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Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by tarakananda »

Friends,

We have been using Nisus Pro for years, and have registration #s for installing, which we have downloaded from the Nisus site. We have recently had computer problems, and have reformatted our drive and reinstalled the system. Our Mac specialist recommends we only install programs from the Apple store because of the "Good Housekeeping seal of approval" code contained therein.

This would mean purchasing something again we already own. Is there a way around this so we don't have to pay again?

Many thanks for your coming answer.

exegete77
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by exegete77 »

Howdy. While the Mac “seal” is a good concept, it isn’t the end-all be-all of applications. I have several applications that are not part of that process, LibreOffice being one I use regularly, and NWP being another. So, I guess it depends on how “pure” someone wants to be. For me, I don’t mind having non-App store apps.

Just the ramblings of an old codger
iMac 21.5” / MBP 13” Retina
Mac user since 1990

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greenmorpher
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by greenmorpher »

The seal is designed to give Apple control over developers and a slice of their earnings. The App store is simply a retail outlet. Beginning and end of story. It has little or nothing to do with assisting Mac users -- that's just the marketing blah to suck us all into the Apple owned system so we maximize Apple profits.

Having been a small publisher, I know all too well how this kind of process works. I buy my software direct from the developer if I can so as to maximize their earnings.

As far as I know, I have no applications on my Mac that I bought from the App store or iTunes or whatever. I did have Apple's own Aperture but found it to be a disastrous kludge of a program so I dumped it. Furthermore, it appears that Aperture is going nowhere. If Apple itself can produce such rubbish and put so little development into it, why should I trust them with monitoring the quality of software produced by others?

I have no software issues on my Mac.

I am on OS X.6.8 so I can run older applications which are without peer under Rosetta. I have some iLife programs of a similar vintage with the occasional update. I bought them on a CD with the OS.

Cheers, geoff

xiamenese
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by xiamenese »

In general I'd say the same ... for anything important, like NWP, Scrivener, etc. I buy from the developer. Why? (i) I too want to put as much of the price their way as I can; (ii) the strict sandboxing required for App Store can impose limitations on some aspects of such apps; (iii) I want to be able to upgrade through beta versions when appropriate; (iv) I want to be able to take advantage of upgrade pricing for major releases of the software, not have to repurchase at full price.

While upgrading for minor releases through the Mac App Store can be quicker and easier, as can installing on more than one computer, I don't find the savings in time and effort so compelling to make me opt for that. And although the App Store version gives you access to iCloud, I have to say I'm no great fan of that, preferring to keep more control using DropBox or SpiderOak.

Apart from Apple's own software — Final Cut Pro X and Keynote, and Pages and Numbers for emergencies, etc. — the only Mac App Store apps I have are small, one task apps, the exception being Pixelmator, which I bought when it first came out and keep upgraded, but use only rarely ... I much prefer GraphicConverter, which I have owned in whatever version was current for about 20 years!

No one would ever persuade me to buy new installations of NWP through the App Store anyway, and certainly not when I already have perfectly good licences purchased direct.

Mark

Edited once.

dshan
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by dshan »

As a general rule buying new software from the Mac App Store is an excellent idea, it's simpler and far less confusing for installs, more reliable for updates and it centralises the user experience for software purchase and updates in a way that makes it easier for the non-experts. It's way easier to manage licenses for multiple machines. It's also safer when it comes to malware.

I know several less experienced Mac users who are quite happily using only the Mac App Store for their software, and I greatly appreciate the lower volume of support calls they make to me as a result. No more having to explain to them the difference between a zip file and a dmg file, how to copy a downloaded app to the Applications folder, or run an app installer program, etc. All the crud you used to have to learn simply to add an app to your Mac (which was why so many Mac users never used to buy new apps, they just used whatever apps came bundled with their machines when they bought them. They were like Windows users!)

So, the Mac App Store is a very good thing. In general. However, like all general rules there are exceptions. And one of those is if you have already bought an app directly from the developer that is now available in the Mac App Store. Sadly there is no mechanism to transfer your directly purchased license to the App Store, and no one wants to have to buy an app again just to get it from the Mac App Store. So when it comes to apps from well known, safe companies like Nisus that you have already purchased directly I'd say don't worry, just continue with your direct license.

As a rule I buy new software from the Mac App Store, but for the stuff I already own I stick with the existing direct licenses (unless an free pre-existing app becomes available from the App Store in which it costs nothing to switch, e.g. Text Wrangler). The other exceptions are for certain utilities that cannot be sold through the App Store because they do things App Store apps are not allowed to do - e.g. Cocktail, Calibre, SuperDuper or the latest versions of Alfred, etc. Mostly these are the "nerdier" types of apps that most users have no need for or interest in.

If I was buying Nisus new today I would definitely buy it from the Mac App Store, and if Apple ever provide a way to transfer pre-existing licenses to the Mac App Store I'll transfer my Nisus license to it in a heartbeat.

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greenmorpher
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by greenmorpher »

dshan wrote:As a rule I buy new software from the Mac App Store, but for the stuff I already own I stick with the existing direct licenses (unless an free pre-existing app becomes available from the App Store in which it costs nothing to switch, e.g. Text Wrangler). The other exceptions are for certain utilities that cannot be sold through the App Store because they do things App Store apps are not allowed to do - e.g. Cocktail, Calibre, SuperDuper or the latest versions of Alfred, etc. Mostly these are the "nerdier" types of apps that most users have no need for or interest in.
Cocktail is nerdy? AND most users have no need for it? It revived my MacBook Pro when it seemed hopelessly scrambled and the tools Apple supplies couldn’t fix it. And that was just using the presets with one or two easy-to-use different settings.

Are you suggesting that someone who can use NWP to even the shallow level I do cannot use Cocktail, Calibre, or SuperDuper? Also that they can’t learn the difference between .zip and .dmg files? And that all you have to do with either is double click then follow the instructions which are perfectly simple (e.g. drag the application icon to your Applications folder)? This is bizarre.
If I was buying Nisus new today I would definitely buy it from the Mac App Store, and if Apple ever provide a way to transfer pre-existing licenses to the Mac App Store I'll transfer my Nisus license to it in a heartbeat.
And hand Apple a third of the price, taking that away from the developers? Why would you transfer your purchase to the Mac App Store? What advantage do you gain? This is fanboyism in extremis. Do you work for Apple -- because that's what it sounds like.

The Internet is supposed to make it easy for us all to make our individual choices and connections -- and it does.

I return to what I said before: if you can use NWP or NWE you can purchase software directly from the developers and install it perfectly easily. If you can use Facebook, the same applies.

Cheers, geoff

drlaz
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by drlaz »

At the risk of starting a flame war, it takes a lot of work for a small developer to get the visibility Mac Appstore provides. Yes, they take a cut. And so do Cult of Mac, etc. How else will consumers find out about your software—especially for something like a word processor that isn't a niche product, but which has a potential audience of literally millions.

xiamenese
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by xiamenese »

drlaz wrote:At the risk of starting a flame war, it takes a lot of work for a small developer to get the visibility Mac Appstore provides. Yes, they take a cut. And so do Cult of Mac, etc. How else will consumers find out about your software—especially for something like a word processor that isn't a niche product, but which has a potential audience of literally millions.
No flame war here.

From a small developer's point of view, you are absolutely right; they need to balance out the much greater slice of the price that Apple takes compared with eSellerate or other online software store against the public exposure that the App store can give them.

From the point of view of a purchaser — and I am only a purchaser, not a developer — the equation is different; for us it is the ease of installing/reinstalling on other computers etc. that the App store gives, as dshan points out, vs the ability to keep up with development through installing betas, the fact that upgrades become immediately available through the developer where the App store approval process can take time, together with, in my case, wishing to put as much as possible of the purchase price the way of the small developer.

There is also a consideration to be made in terms of functionality: the App store version may allow the use of iCloud if that is programmed in, where the direct purchase won't; on the other hand, the direct purchase version may have elements of functionality — e.g. the ability to call another app — which are against App store rules and regulations. The purchaser needs to decide how important to them any such functionality will be and purchase accordingly.

But in the case of the OP, given that they already have existing licences, repurchasing NWP through the App Store would seem to me a strange thing to do ... unless of course the OP's motive is to shove even more hard-earned money in the direction of Nisus ... and I can't see Nisus objecting to that! :D

Mark

dshan
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by dshan »

greenmorpher wrote: Cocktail is nerdy? AND most users have no need for it? It revived my MacBook Pro when it seemed hopelessly scrambled and the tools Apple supplies couldn’t fix it. And that was just using the presets with one or two easy-to-use different settings.
Not what I said and certainly not what I meant. But Cocktail is not an app most Mac users have installed, neither are the other apps I mentioned. They are only used by people who know a thing or two about computers. And they in general greatly overestimate the knowledge level (and interest level) most users have in this sort of stuff. I've made that mistake many times and it always surprises me how uninterested in the nitty gritty stuff most users are, and how easily confused by more than a hint of it they often are.

The reason Apple have been so insanely successful with the iPhone, iPad and iOS in general is that they realised that 99% of users don't know, and don't want to know, anything very technical about computers. They just want them to work, to be able to find and buy apps like candy with no technical knowledge required and a simple single-source for them. They want computers to be consumer electronic devices, set and forget devices that are more like modern cars instead of hobbyist/nerdy toys or something you have to change your own oil for.
greenmorpher wrote: Are you suggesting that someone who can use NWP to even the shallow level I do cannot use Cocktail, Calibre, or SuperDuper? Also that they can’t learn the difference between .zip and .dmg files? And that all you have to do with either is double click then follow the instructions which are perfectly simple (e.g. drag the application icon to your Applications folder)? This is bizarre.
Not at all, but you are a more unusual user than I think you realise. Most people using computers today have no clue about what the Applications folder even is or why they have to drag something there. To them this is all really bizarre "computer stuff" they don't want to know about. A large majority of computer users don't have a clue about things you and those of us who have been using Macs and Windows computers for years take for granted because it has become second nature to us. 99% of the population don't want to "learn computers" they want to pick them up and have it all happen with no need to know what a file is, what a zip archive is, etc., let alone how to install software from a zip file, a .dmg file or whatever.
greenmorpher wrote:
If I was buying Nisus new today I would definitely buy it from the Mac App Store, and if Apple ever provide a way to transfer pre-existing licenses to the Mac App Store I'll transfer my Nisus license to it in a heartbeat.
And hand Apple a third of the price, taking that away from the developers? Why would you transfer your purchase to the Mac App Store? What advantage do you gain? This is fanboyism in extremis. Do you work for Apple -- because that's what it sounds like.
Really, you should try upgrading to a version of OS X and a Mac that can actually run the App Store before you insist it has no advantages over the old system! You also seem oblivious to the fact that selling software the old fashioned way is not free for the developers, they have to build and maintain a website, maybe pay for servers and software to host it, they have to pay for one or more payment processing systems and hook them into it, they have to handle all sorts of crud work (that costs them real money and effort). This can easily add up to a significant percentage of each sale of their apps. The iOS and Mac app stores remove much of this overhead and simplify much of the process making it much easier and cheaper for new developers to build a business selling their apps. For many it saves them money compared to how things used to work. There are many more people developing for OS X (let alone iOS) now than ever before, and much of that success is down to the ease and simplicity of the app stores, something the vast majority of Apple customers love.

I'm not a fanboy, any more than you are a hopelessly outdated curmudgeon who can't cope with change or the way young people dress today. ;-) I've never worked for Apple. Sure the app stores have issues and are not perfect, but the old system is an expensive, and often confusing mess that can point no fingers at the new system. I'm not advocating that the Mac app store should be the only way to buy and install apps, I think Apple have done a good job with Gatekeeper and the Mac app store as far as balancing the need for simplicity, ease of use and security vs the need for more experienced uses to be able to install apps that are not necessarily suitable for the app store.

There are lots of things I wish the Apple app stores had, like the ability to go back to an older version of an updated app, trial periods for selected apps and a way to transfer old licenses across to the app store versions from older purchases, as well as better search tools for the stores and so forth, but what they provide already is so much better than the old way for most users most of the time it's not even funny. They can get better as new features are rolled out over time, the old system is stuck pretty much where it has been for 15 years or more. Like many users who grew up in the old world, when computers were interesting in themselves as much as for what they could do for their owners. The future is about what they can do for you not the gritty details of how they do it.

greenmorpher wrote: I return to what I said before: if you can use NWP or NWE you can purchase software directly from the developers and install it perfectly easily. If you can use Facebook, the same applies.
I've worked with lots of computer newbies and inexperienced types and you are so wrong about that -- the FaceBook/Twitter/social media/games users often know very little about computers and technology, and usually don't have much interest in learning more. They just want technology to help them communicate with their friends and colleagues and play the latest games everyone is on about as well as simplify their work lives. They love the iPad and iPhone because they do this better than any other platform, including the Mac. If the Mac is to continue to grow and thrive then it has to become more compatible with the iOS approach and present uses with a simpler and more familiar environment when it comes to things like buying and installing apps and so forth.

Most drivers drive cars, not trucks, even though behind the scenes trucks do a lot of useful and vital work and will continue to do so. Truck drivers are a specialised breed, but the big money is in selling cars not trucks because the potential customer base is so much larger for cars. Stop trying to turn everyone into a truck driver, it will never work.

credneb
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by credneb »

[quote]We have been using Nisus Pro for years, and have registration #s for installing, which we have downloaded from the Nisus site.
...Is there a way around this so we don't have to pay again?
[/quote]

This thread seemed to wander.

If you have the registration numbers but not the copies of the Nisus installer you previously downloaded, you can just download the current version from the Nisus site and register it with the numbers you already have.

No need to go thru Apple. And there is just as much likelihood of Apple's servers being infected by a virus as Nisus' servers are, I would wager.

I'm sure if hte above is wrong, Martin or someone will correct me. But I usually save the installer to a separate disk, and have had no problem reinstalling without revisiting the Nisus store.

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greenmorpher
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by greenmorpher »

Hi dshan

I won’t go through every one of your points in detail. Some notes thought:

* You have shifted the discussion from a person who is an existing Mac user and has purchased from Nisus to people who are on iPhone and iPad. The existing Mac user and NWP users certainly can buy NWP from Nisus and install it. They have already done it. In fact, anyone who is using a Mac can do that. With ease and ought to be encouraged to buy from Nisus if you want to continue to see NWP developed and freely available. Your iPhone or iPad user who is not using a Mac could do it too, of course, but probably won’t. Their choice. It might be 99% of iPhone and iPad users, but not of Mac users.

* Cocktail has not been installed by the vast majority of Mac users partly because the Mac is pretty reliable and partly because they are falling for Apple's enormous but simple marketing confidence trick. Apple dubs its shop assistants in the Apple stores and on the support phone "genius" which immediately says that all the stuff about Macs (and other Apple devices) is beyond the understanding or "ordinary" people. Brilliant. Of course, they are not geniuses and the stuff is not complicated. it is as simple as the controls of a DVD player.

* Your assumptions about my knowledge of marketing on the Internet are quite wrong. I market stuff on the Internet. I know exactly how difficult and costly it is. You are vastly overstating the site costs. The big cost is driving people to the site and persuading them to buy your product. Developers with apps in the App Store still have to do that -- and hope their appeal is strong enough to prevent prospects being seduced by the plethora of competing apps. The App Store is actually just a virtual big box retailer where you can’t even examine the item at what is inside the box so driving your prospects to it is a gamble. It also takes away the back-end, upgrade sales from the developer -- the sales where developers should make serious profit.

* X.6.8 -- what I have -- will run the App Store if I want it to. It will also run a number of programs vital to my business which Apple does not sell and which Apple has chosen not to support any longer (by killing Rosetta). These programs, including Canvas X and Eudora, are without peer -- still. "Upgrading" my OS would add bling at the expense of downgrading my computer as a tool.

* Finally, I have concerns about future supply when I see a private business developing a monopoly. It is disastrous for both consumers and product suppliers in the long run. But that is another matter.

Cheers, geoff

martin
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by martin »

There are drawbacks and benefits to both the Mac App Store and directly downloading an app from a developer. I'll leave that discussion and decision to the end users. I'll just say that everyone at Nisus Software is happy to receive the support we get from all our users!

Back to the original question:
This would mean purchasing something again we already own. Is there a way around this so we don't have to pay again?
I'm afraid not. There's no way to turn a license you purchased directly from Nisus (or any other developer) into a free download from the Mac App Store. This isn't likely to ever change, because it would open a big loophole in Apple's 30% cut of every sale.

If you need to use Nisus Writer Pro on a new computer, just download the appropriate version from our archives. Once you've completed the download and launched the app, you can enter your license key and should be all set. If you forgot your license key, the quickest way to look it up is our online license key lookup.

reh-im-mond
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by reh-im-mond »

If I like an app, I try to give as much support as possible to the developer. Buying directly from the developer (so all the profit goes there) would be a good thing, however: In my country's Mac App Store, there were about 15 five-star reviews for Mellel – and not one single review for Nisus Writer Pro. This is why I purchased Nisus through the Mac App Store – to leave a positive review. Reality is, most people aren't interested in software (as long as it somehow works) and many don't even know how to download an app – they just buy MS Office when purchasing their new mac and that's it. For them, the Mac App Store is like the first time they ever got interested in apps. And yes, they really read the reviews – even instead of downloading a demo! It's incredible, I know, but I meet quite a lot of people like that…

(sorry my English!)

martin
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by martin »

reh-im-mond wrote:In my country's Mac App Store, there were about 15 five-star reviews for Mellel – and not one single review for Nisus Writer Pro. This is why I purchased Nisus through the Mac App Store – to leave a positive review.
Thank you very much for that! Nisus doesn't do much advertising, so customer reviews and word of mouth are critical for us. We really appreciate you taking the time to post your review.

And please, no apology for your English– it's quite good and clear.

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Patrick J
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Re: Nisus Pro and the Mac App store

Post by Patrick J »

Is the Mac App store different for each country?

I purchased Nisus Writer Pro from the Mac App store on 1st November 2013. I left a truly glowing 5 star review ☺

At present at the App store for me there are three reviews in total for Nisus Writer Pro and none for Nisus Writer Express.

I think that purchasing Nisus Writer from the App Store is a good thing if you leave a positive review. Although I guess Nisus get less of the money, the positive reviews are I suspect very beneficial for sales.

UPDATE

Well I've just gone to the App Store and I see that you can change the country using a circular icon at the bottom right of the main page.

It does seem that there are different reviews for each country. My review is in the UK.
Patrick

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